Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth – 2 The Earth Mechanics

Although I am writing this with a particular point in mind, I do not expect it to be right, it is only hypothetical. You can add your arguments against it, which, if pertinent I will add into the post itself. Or you may add your queries that I will attempt to answer, or a reader may be able to answer. (Please state if you want your name included in the additions). Although there has been a lot of research done on this subject, most of the conclusions published are, at best, guesses. We just do not have enough evidence. Possibly, between us, we can arrive at a better hypothesis that will help the science along.

Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth.

One point that is occasionally brought up relating to the dinosaurs is the problems that they would have due to the force of Earth’s gravity. The argument is that their bodily structure was insufficient to allow them to function successfully. We are therefore forced to conclude that one of the following must apply:-

1. They were unsuccessful

2. The assessment of their bodily structure is wrong

3. The gravity was different then than it is now

Archaeological finds indicate that the dinosaurs were the most successful category of animal life on Earth. I cannot comment on the arguments relating to their biological structure, but I assume that competent people were involved. (See Stephen Hurrell’s web site “Dinosaurs and the expanding Earth”) He is offering free downloads of much of the background to his book, worthwhile looking.

plus http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11815320

(I have recently come across an item on YouTube that is quite interesting.  This is a video showing the probable course of Earth under expansion.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kL7qDeI05U. Although not really addressing the mechanics it is a very useful video, that I wished I’d done. 13/05/2011))

We are left with the argument that Earth’s gravity was different.

To satisfy the requirements of the dinosaurs Earth’s diameter would have to be about 4,300 to 5,000miles.

This means that Earth would have to have increased its diameter by approximately 3,000 to 3,700 miles since the dinosaurs died out!

But, the remains of the dinosaurs were found in the Earth’s crust, so how could they be there, they should be buried under 1,850 miles of new soil or rock (Assuming an original diameter of 4,300miles!

However, the accretion of space debris is an unlikely cause of the increase in diameter, even the occasional meteorite would not make more than a minor difference. The meteor that is blamed for destroying the dinosaurs hardly caused much of an increase in the Earth’s diameter, and the dinosaurs survived for millions of years in which no comparable meteor landed on Earth.

An alternative hypothesis.

What if the Earth’s crust floated on top of the increasing diameter?  The scientists state that the landmasses are moving apart. OK, but the only way they can spread out is if the Earth is expanding. The present hypothesis is that all the present land was part of a single land mass surrounded by a large ocean.

Let us assume that the present land mass was approximately equivalent to the total surface area of the Earth millions of years ago. There would still be lakes of varying sizes and small rivers.  This would give the Earth’s diameter as 4,300 miles, about the same diameter as Mars, with a gravity of about (Very roughly) half of Earth’s present gravity. This would make the dinosaurs quite happy and be close to their ‘design’ parameters.

If the landmass ‘floated’ what would happen on expansion of the Earth? Well, the crust would crack like an eggshell. As the Earth expanded the crust sections would tend to try and retain their original curvature, but would start to sag under their mass. They would crinkle, bulge and shear. Water in lakes and streams would gradually be displaced and run off the damaged landmasses. Water would fill the cracks surrounding the landmasses. As the Earth continued its expansion these cracks would widen until they became seas. The original lakes would leave evidence of the fish and reptiles that originally inhabited them.

Of course all this would need some action that would create the excess stresses, otherwise the Earth would just accumulate space debris over many billions of years and just gradually increase its size and end up as just another rock ball such as the moon or Mercury.

A likely culprit is the Moon. It is possible that the acquisition of the Moon coincided with the acquisition of the meteor that destroyed the dinosaurs. Possibly the meteor was a satellite of our moon! Another possibility is that the ‘meteor’ that destroyed the dinosaurs was actually an Earth satellite itself, displaced by the acquisition of the moon. There are many possibilities. The arguments for saying that the Moon was created at the same time as the Earth is a very weak hypothesis with virtually no scientific evidence.

To return to the time of the dinosaurs. There is plenty of evidence that at that time the Earth was lavishly covered in plant life, and that there was an abundance of animal life. This situation had been around for millions of years during which the Earth was not plagued by millions of meteors intent on destroying Earth. In other words the Earth had a very stable environment for many millions of years. Since then the Earth has almost doubled in size. It requires a huge change in circumstances to bring this about.

If the dinosaurs were destroyed 64 million years ago and the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, this means that the Earth has doubled in size in the last 0.014% of its existence! Admittedly, the claims and mathematics of the scientists are highly suspect, but even so, this is an explosion in geological terms.

Although the time scales are probably wrong due the many ifs and buts involved in geological dating, even if the Earth is only 1 billion years old, it is still an astounding increase in the Earth’s diameter. You would have to push back the date of the dinosaur’s demise to about 3 billion years ago to arrive at an ‘acceptable’ figure for the rate of expansion of the Earth, i.e. a figure that would probably not be so worrying.

Of all the scientific research into geological time scales, the change in size of the Earth as required to account for the dinosaurs success is the most important, the most scientifically sound, and gives the most accurate assessment of what is happening. The main doubt is whether the date of the dinosaurs demise is accurate.

Whether or not a pterodactyl could fly under specified conditions is an engineering question, involving aerodynamics and structural analysis. There is a lot of proven expertise and knowledge about these subjects. The specified conditions include both gravity and atmospheric density. Could a greater atmospheric density than our present one help with solving the problem. Only marginally, a greater percentage of oxygen would help but not enough. Possibly the dinosaurs operated on a different chemical mix than we do today but this would only made a small difference. No, the atmospheric density would have to be significantly higher, which would mean a higher gravity not a lower one.

Accretion of space dust and debris would not account for much of this in the 64 million year time scale. Assuming that the Moon has been around for the same period, the space dust there is less than 20cm, and there is no reason to assume that the Earth would receive 1850 miles thickness in the same time period. If the solar system had passed through a gigantic cloud of space dust over a long period of time, there would be signs on both the Earth and moon that this had happened.

What is the greatest depth that man has penetrated? To date, this is a depth of about 7.5 miles (the Russian Kola Superdeep Borehole). (The deepest ocean depth is 6.22 miles.) [The Deepest Hole by Alan Bellows – from DamnInteresting.com]

In the Kola hole only micro fossils were found, indicative, but not conclusive, that at this depth that life forms were not very advanced, and they long preceded the dinosaurs. It can therefore be argued that all life-form fossils are likely to be contained in the outer 10 miles of the Earth’s crust. We have the situation that any increase in the Earth’s diameter apart from a (possible) 10 mile skin, must have occurred below the Earth’s crust.

The Earth/Moon gravitational attraction exerts billions of tons of stress force on the Earth.

For the Moon this not much of a problem, because this force is relatively constant, the Moon keeping one face always towards the Earth. Note that there are statements on some technical sites that the Moon suffers from ‘tidal stresses’ due to its interaction with Earth. This is extremely unlikely as the tidal effect would require that the Moon rotates relative to the gravitational forces, which does not happen with the Moon, although there are some tidal stresses due to the Sun but these are quite small. Note; There is a ‘tidal’ affect due to the small oscillation of the moon relative to Earth but this is too small to be significant.

On Earth the force sweeps across the Earth’s surface creating varying stresses, not just on the seas causing the tides, but also on the land surfaces.

These ‘land tides’ are lifting and dropping the Earth’s crust every 24 hours.

The crust doesn’t lift as much as the water, the crust being a lot heavier than the water, and doesn’t have the same flexibility. Without this flexibility the crust is subjected to enormous stresses.

As the crust lifts, water and gases and many other elements are sucked under the crust. As the crust falls these are subject to very high pressures that can change their atomic structure. Gases will be liquefied, sand and silt will be compressed into a rock like consistency, helped by the high temperatures and pressures. (Note: – At a depth of 7 miles the Russians found that the rock became plastic and tended to seal the borehole up again.)

This happens every day, 365 days per year. If we say that 1 million tons/day are treated this way, this means that 365,000,000,000 tons are added under the Earth’s crust every 1000 years.

Note: – The microfossils found by the Russians could have been drawn in their position due to the above actions, their small size enabling them to pass through small crevices without difficulty.

In 64 million years a total of = 23,360,000,000,000,000,000 tons would be added below the Earth’s crust!

Note that 1 million tons/day is a very conservative guess; it should be a considerable amount more than that. (This equates to about 0.6kgs for every square kilometre of the Earth’s land area, a very miserly amount.

We only need an average lift in the Earth’s crust of less than 0.001mm to arrive at the above figures.)

Note; I have found various figures for the actual crust lift on Earth, one sensible one being being about 13centimetres.

It should be remembered that although the Earth’s gravity 64 million years ago may have been half of what it is today. it is doubtful that the Moon has changed much in that time. This means that the Earth’s crust would weigh approximately half of what it weighs now and therefore the lift on the earth’s would be much greater many millions of years ago..

Vacuum

Some of you may be considering that if all this liquid and silt etc was sucked under the crust on the crust lifting, then it would all be forced out when it drops. It just doesn’t work that way. Under suction the flow is made easier because the material at the suction end is cleared first, making way for the following material. Under pressure the inertia of the silt and liquids drastically reduces the flow, in a similar way that happens with a sink plunger. A sink blockage is usually cleared on the upstroke (suction), the down-stroke (pressure) only compressing the blockage and making it worse.

If you have worked on vacuum systems you will realise how difficult it is to seal against vacuum. A joint that will retain pressures of 5.000psi will leak like a sieve under a vacuum of a few pounds. [See Understanding Pressure and Vacuum]

Also, we are not considering huge apertures under the crust, but billions of small cracks and cavities through which liquids and silt will travel through quite quickly under suction. This acts like a one-way valve (Non-return valve) allowing material to pass under the crust but preventing its return.

Is there another option?

It would be possible for the Earth’s gravity to increase without adding much to the Earth’s diameter. This would depend on how the effect of the Moons gravity acted deeper within the Earth. If we consider that the Earth is a huge butter churn, with the core as the butter, the churning action would tend to create very heavy material under the high temperatures and pressure. This would increase the density and therefore increase the gravitational forces.

Scientists have a hypothesis that the Moon was a lot closer to Earth in the past. If so, the gravitational forces would be a lot higher and the effects would happen more rapidly. However the evidence is rather weak. It should be remembered that the geological sciences are at a very early stage and evidence is very sketchy. Most published information is based on very weak hypotheses, (very much like mine on this subject, but I am at least trying to find a way through the confusion).

The Russian scientists were confused at what was found in the Kola hole, which was not as expected by the present hypotheses about the structure of the Earth. When considering the billions spent on geological research to find oil, it is obvious that current knowledge is extremely limited even to just a few miles below the Earth’s surface. Yet we are constantly presented with hypotheses masquerading as facts. The Kola hole showed that the scientists were wrong about the Earth’s structure at a depth of 7 miles,  only 0.00175% of the Earth’s diameter. We really don’t know anything about the structure of the Earth.

Unfortunately, this lack of knowledge is then applied to the other planets in the solar system, of which we know even less.

Yes, I am aware that you want to know where all the material came from to build up the Earth. At this stage I will just say that it comes from the same source that created the suns and stars, and is in ample supply.  Hydrogen has been claimed to have been ‘discovered’  in a few places, but the fact that rest of space itself is not a vacuum means that there must be something there. Note;- I have serious doubts about the accuracy of optical experiments relating to colour, especially relating to optical spectra. The physicists interpretations of optical phenomena are quite ludicrous in many cases, as demonstrated elsewhere on this web site. The Fraunhofer lines in spectra are certainly not caused in the way stated by physicists, and these are the main ‘proof’ of their hypotheses.

NOTE:-SEE ALSO STEPHEN HURRELL’s WEB SITE Dinosaurs and the Expanding Earth, that I have just spotted on the web. (2nd September 2010).

At present his web site has a lot of the background information on this subject and is certainly worth visiting, (and no, he is not paying for saying this.) (13/05/2011)

Extract from BBC News 4th Jan 2011

21/06/2011

Extract from

Dinosaurs and the Ancient Earth:

Science Avoiding a Mystery by G. Lee Zimmerman, PhD (zim2918@q.com)

Originally written October 2006

In the summer of 1972, a graduate student from the University of Texas, Douglas A. Lawson, made a discovery in Big Bend National Park. He found the fragmentary fossilized remains of a wing. It belonged to a giant pteranodon — twice the size of any previously found. This beast was probably the largest flying animal that had ever lived. It had a conservatively estimated wingspan of 15.5 meters (about 50 feet) – about half the wingspan of a Boeing 737.[1]

Lawson published his findings in 1975 and immediately started a controversy. Aeronautical engineers had recently shown that the physics of flight set a hard limit on the size of a flying animal. They had calculated the maximum limit was a 25 foot wingspan and a body weight under fifty pounds. According to this, if an animal were larger, it simply couldn’t fly.[2]

This limit seems to ring true. The heaviest bird able to fly today is the great bustard. It can weigh up to 46 pounds but can only stay aloft for very short time, much like a chicken. The longest wingspan of a bird living today is the albatross, a little over 11 feet from tip to tip. One of the largest creatures able to take wing today—the Berkut eagles of Kirghiz, Russia—weigh a maximum of 20 pounds with a 7-foot wingspan. Tellingly, at this size, the Berkut eagle can only take off from flat ground with great difficulty. It has been bred close to the point at which flying creatures need more musculature for flying than they are able to carry.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12109625

Britain also feels the effects of earthquakes in the North Sea. Here, the crust is much thinner and it is also marked by large numbers of faults.

The earth beneath our feet is never completely static. The crust is constantly on the move. For example, much of the UK is still rebounding after the melting of the great mass of ice that covered the country thousands of years ago.

And even on a daily basis, the crust will move up and down by many millimetres as the tides roll around the island nation.

The Deepest dinosaur bone Ever Found

From the News 24/04/2011

To claim the country’s first dinosaur discovery, Norwegians had to dig more than a mile down.

An oil drilling operation uncovered the knuckle-bone of a Plateosaurus. Well, actually, the knuckle-bone is now crushed. And it’s not actually in Norway proper, but below the North Sea.

Whatever the case, it’s a neat piece of record-setting, accidental paleontology. The fossil is the deepest dinosaur remain ever found. The knuckle-bone was found in a hollow gravewithin sediment 1.4 miles (2,256 meters) below the seabed. The area was once dry plains with rivers running through them.

Researchers said it’s quite possible there are many more fossils down there.

The finding was announced today by the Research Council of Norway. The work was led by Jorn Hurum, said to be Norway’s only dinosaur researcher.http://www.livescience.com/4101-norway-dinosaur-sets-depth-record.html

Comments From Brian.

North Sea Max Depth = 2300ft = 700 metres, Average depth = 312 ft. = 95 metres.

Therefore the fossil was found at a depth of

A, 2.256 + 700 = 2.956 km below present day sea levels.

or

B, 2.256+ 95 = 2.361 km below present day sea levels.

There is enough evidence to say that the present North Sea was dry land long after the demise of the dinosaurs. The bone “was found in a hollow grave within sediment It could therefore have arrived there by being sucked under the crust in the same way as previously stated.

Obviously, if they find a complete dinosaur at the same depth this would present a problem. I cannot visualise a complete 9 metre dinosaur passing through 13 mm crevice.

Author, Brian Williams

General Interest Dinosaurs, Expanding Earth, vacuum